Goodbye to EHC PGD

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Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Lindsey » Wed May 26, 2010 8:00 pm

I can do this up to Monday - after that I am banned unless i do about 16 hours worth of additional CPPE -and do you know what, i just do not have time - really.

How exactly will this help the young people in the places I work?

I must have done this for 5 years at least - suddenly I am not accredited.

Just having a strop - and I am going to an evening meeting on Thurs about child protection - if it turns out to be a waste of my time the PCT are going to know all about it.

Lindsey
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Leytonexile » Wed May 26, 2010 8:49 pm

My problem is that I'm accredited in Cornwall and on The Isle of Wight, but not in between! If a 14 year old girl comes to me for help in Plymouth, she's out of luck but if I take her across the Tamar to Torpoint or Saltash, she's ok. Why the difference? Sex and its consequences are just the same wherever it occurs.
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Mr T » Wed May 26, 2010 8:55 pm

My suggestion posted elsewhere is for important services like this to go Advanced. A single unified service, single point accreditation through a distance learning course (like the other Advanced service).

A national Advanced EHC service could also have a single e-form for the paperwork. No more duplicate/triplicate/insecure confidential material hanging around, or large amounts of irrelevant blank form based on the client's situation.
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby cartrefeira » Wed May 26, 2010 9:40 pm

I'm afraid that I don't see a real problem.

I'm automatically qualified as a pharmacist to sell EHC to anyone over the age of 16. If we limited the PGDs for giving the staff away to 16 year olds and up, there should be no need for any special accreditation. Then let OOH or whoever deal with the extremely rare cases where a girl under 16 makes the request (in fact, in practice the average patient requesting EHC in my experience is aged between 25 and 40.)

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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Lindsey » Wed May 26, 2010 9:49 pm

Obviously our experiences differ - round here the average would be 15, plenty of 14s and the occasional 13.
I am seriously going to be letting down a lot of girls

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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Sheps » Wed May 26, 2010 10:42 pm

Frankly, I don't think 13 year old girls should be able to 'pop into the chemists' and get EHC.

I may be wrong, but I understood that intercourse with someone 13 or under was statutory rape. How long before we're doing abortions in the consulting room????
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby cartrefeira » Thu May 27, 2010 6:36 am

Lindsey wrote:Obviously our experiences differ - round here the average would be 15, plenty of 14s and the occasional 13.
I am seriously going to be letting down a lot of girls

Lindsey



North Wales is a very conservative [note the small 'c'] area. It also has high unemployment and I'm afraid that for a number of girls getting pregnant early is actually a career choice. Free house or flat, free electricity and gas, a helpful older person, and probably more money than they could earn in the sort of seasonal work which is available -- getting pregnant can be the rational decision.

All a result of the government share of GDP here being over 70%, that is, only £30 of every hundred spent here is generated from private industry or commerce. The national average is 40% and that is too high, London is 22%.

OK rant over.

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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Lindsey » Thu May 27, 2010 7:21 am

Sheps wrote:Frankly, I don't think 13 year old girls should be able to 'pop into the chemists' and get EHC.

I may be wrong, but I understood that intercourse with someone 13 or under was statutory rape. How long before we're doing abortions in the consulting room????


I have discovered in myself a serious tendency to a bad temper - I have to count to 10 sometimes now, and even then it doesn't work. However this post turns out, you can read between the lines and realise it is actually a real rant.

Sheps - how could you. Why do we need the Daily Ferret when you do the job so much better. 'pop into the chemist' - do you really think I do that job so unprofessionally? Who do you suggest would do it better?

Unlike Bob's experience, generally girls round here do not make getting pregnant at 13 a career choice. You and I might agree that it is regrettable that they are sexually active at 13 (and its 12 and under that is statutory rape) but they need help not judgment.

They come into the pharmacy with a bunch of mates for support. There is no way that they would ever make an appointment with their GP, they would be too scared of their parents finding out. This gives me an opportunity for very detailed discussions about life, sex and protection - not to mention including a Chlamydia test. The realistic alternative for them is a termination or a baby, not I would suggest a better outcome.

One of my core desires for this year is raising the standing of pharmacists - if we stab ourselves in the back like this, what chance any onlooker would have confidence in us?

Lindsey
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Leytonexile » Thu May 27, 2010 8:10 am

I agree completely with Lindsey on this one. When faced with a young lady who's got herself into a hole, our job is to get her out of it as best we can. (Could I have phrased that better?)
As to statutory rape, my understanding is that this is intercourse with a girl under 13, but in any case, it doesn't diminish the requirement for EHC.

Of all the changes I've seen over my long career (38 years!), being able to give EHC is the most satisfying. The look of relief on the worried face of a young girl can really make your day. One was so relieved, she passed out in a heap at my feet. (No, the training package doesn't cover that!)

Would anyone really send a 14 year old girl away with a flea in their ear? Saying that they should have thought of the consequences before they had sex. Knowing that this would seriously damage their education, and prospects for a happy life to say nothing of the baby being born to a mother who probably won't be able to cope.

ps Lindsey. You're a pharmacist! Don't count to ten when you get angry, try Fluoxetine! (No more than three, mind you!)
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby johnep » Thu May 27, 2010 10:50 am

I have to agree, it was impressed on me not to supply girls under 16. So, I used to ask their date of birth. Gave up after one collapsed in tears on a Bank Holiday Monday after having had the incident on the Friday night. She had had terrible problems just getting the £25 together over the weekend and had no other money to get to A&E. This was in the early days of EHC when the DM was sending in under age girls for tomorrows headline.

At a PGD accreditation meeting we were told to supply to 13 year girls after asking the competency questions.

The object of the exercise to prevent the birth of unwanted babies, ie harm reduction, as is the methadone supply in another area.

Until we are able to read stories of a real life Tess, cases of infanticide as in the old days, then the out of wedlock birthrate will keep rising.

Only when the result of an action is so horrific will there be a return to 'middle class morals.
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby dizzydi » Thu May 27, 2010 2:07 pm

[quote][/quote]This gives me an opportunity for very detailed discussions about life, sex and protection - not to mention including a Chlamydia test.

- which is why keeping up to date on EHC is imperative- not to mention child protection where the job title of the statutory staff changes so often you need to update regularly and we hear of so many horrendous cases of child abuse. I do think 16 hours of additional learning is excessive though. Round my way we do an update evening every 2 years (approx 2.5 hours) which I organise and which actually gets really good feedback. However, I do occassional Saturday mornings in another PCT where suprize surprize I am not accredited to do the PGD. Barmy. When will the HAG be accepted everywhere?
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Lindsey » Thu May 27, 2010 2:14 pm

ASAP I hope, the DH have taken the programme forward so who knows.

This 16 hours is on top of the evening meetings on child protection etc, one of which, by co-incidence, I am going to tonight.

My real worry is that when we finally get HAG it will have been so gold plated as to not be worth doing even though it is universal.

Look on this as a business proposition, if I cost my time at say, £24 per hour. Am i ever going to get a return on £24 x 16 = £384? That isn't the reason I'm not going to do it, but it is one heck of a disincentive.

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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Defblade » Thu May 27, 2010 3:28 pm

Been trying to get EHC accredited for nearly 2 years where I am now.

First session was snowed off; I was ill for the next one; the next one was on a weekday afternoon (!) and they rang yesterday to say there's another day time one on Tuesday after the bank hol so I won't be going to that one either....
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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby cartrefeira » Thu May 27, 2010 5:17 pm

Defblade wrote:Been trying to get EHC accredited for nearly 2 years where I am now.

First session was snowed off; I was ill for the next one; the next one was on a weekday afternoon (!) and they rang yesterday to say there's another day time one on Tuesday after the bank hol so I won't be going to that one either....


We had these daytime sessions in North Wales too. When I queried with the prescribing advisers I was told it was because the big companies had requested it.

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Re: Goodbye to EHC PGD

Postby Mr T » Thu May 27, 2010 5:38 pm

Lindsey wrote:My real worry is that when we finally get HAG it will have been so gold plated as to not be worth doing even though it is universal.


Mr T wrote:My suggestion posted elsewhere is for important services like this to go Advanced. A single unified service, single point accreditation through a distance learning course (like the other Advanced service).


What do you reckon then?
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